Lee Marsh

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Posts by Lee Marsh

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  35

  Help wanted finding images

  by Lee Marsh in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am working on a project that requires proofs that the wts did say it and jws believe and follow it.. i have found some but google is giving me a hard time with some things.. as i go i will post requests for various images.

  they all must have a reference or at least post where i can find the reference and i will add it to the image.. both older and newer beliefs are welcome, especially flip-flops.. if you have something similar to what is already posted then more references the better.

  i know there are images of the structure of the wts.

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  Lee Marsh

  Excellent images and links. They might roll thinks back in the publications but the words and meanings are still there
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  35

  Help wanted finding images

  by Lee Marsh in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am working on a project that requires proofs that the wts did say it and jws believe and follow it.. i have found some but google is giving me a hard time with some things.. as i go i will post requests for various images.

  they all must have a reference or at least post where i can find the reference and i will add it to the image.. both older and newer beliefs are welcome, especially flip-flops.. if you have something similar to what is already posted then more references the better.

  i know there are images of the structure of the wts.

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  Lee Marsh

  I am working on a project that requires proofs that the WTS did say it and JWs believe and follow it.

  I have found some but Google is giving me a hard time with some things.

  As I go I will post requests for various images. They all must have a reference or at least post where I can find the reference and I will add it to the image.

  Both older and newer beliefs are welcome, especially flip-flops.

  If you have something similar to what is already posted then more references the better.

  1. I know there are images of the structure of the WTS. Jehovah on top and publishers on the bottom but is there one with the women and children on the bottom.
  2. Images that show: that all people except JWs will die a horrible death; be destroyed at Armageddon, only JWs will enter paradise
  3. DFed ones will not make it through Armageddon
  4. DFed are "spiritually dead', "mentally diseased", unfit to associate with, etc.
  5. Women should submit to abuse to the death if necessary to "win her husband over. Woman's responsibility to "make it work.

  That is enough for now.

  Thank you for any help you can give.
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  24

  A divorced single sistet

  by TxNVSue2023 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it was an opinion of someone that to be a divorced, single sister i. the organization was the lowest social standing you can have.

  why are they dispised?

  ( what if was a scriptural divorce where husband cheated?

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  Lee Marsh

  I have to wonder what was so wrong in the marriage that she had to go somewhere else.

  Studies show women don't have extra-marital affairs for the sex. They want the emotional closeness and intimacy.

  But a rigid system will only see the sex part and not the underlying issues. Many JW women feel alone in their marriages. Many get married for the wrong reasons and are not compatible. And if the husband has any position in the congregation then she is an emotional widow in the congregation

  But always blame the woman
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  24

  A divorced single sistet

  by TxNVSue2023 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it was an opinion of someone that to be a divorced, single sister i. the organization was the lowest social standing you can have.

  why are they dispised?

  ( what if was a scriptural divorce where husband cheated?

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  Lee Marsh

  enoughisenough

  exactly
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  24

  A divorced single sistet

  by TxNVSue2023 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it was an opinion of someone that to be a divorced, single sister i. the organization was the lowest social standing you can have.

  why are they dispised?

  ( what if was a scriptural divorce where husband cheated?

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  Lee Marsh

  For those who think this isn't worth discussing, I assure you the women who have experienced this or are experiencing it now, need to see they are not alone.
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  24

  A divorced single sistet

  by TxNVSue2023 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it was an opinion of someone that to be a divorced, single sister i. the organization was the lowest social standing you can have.

  why are they dispised?

  ( what if was a scriptural divorce where husband cheated?

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  Lee Marsh

  I agree with the opening statement. If a woman is already divorced before she becomes a JW then she is on a higher level of acceptance than a JW who gets divorced even if the husband was cheating.

  The woman gets the blame. They believe that if she was giving him the "marital due" he would not have cheated so it is her failure. And therefore, there must be something spiritually wrong with her.

  So she gets "marked"; fewer people will talk to her at the meetings, they don't socialize with her and she is often not invited to group activities like weddings and showers. They invite her out for service but that is about it.

  The men on the other hand can get disfellowshipped, worm their way back in and even become elders again.
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  28

  Do we blame the Governing Body too much?

  by no-zombie in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'd like to start this post with a part from the movie 'v for vendetta'.

  here in a dystopian state, the main character named v, explains why things have gone so bad ....

  those who do not want us to speak.

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  Lee Marsh

  Abusers have the power. And they choose to KEEP it.

  Just because a person was a victim, and I suppose you could say they still are, they have plenty of proof that they are wrong. Franz proved it to them and they refused. We have been online proving it to them for over 40 years and still they refuse it.

  • They refused to accept it.
  • They refused to admit their error.
  • They refused to stop raking in the money
  • They refused to stop taking advantage of the people who they are supposed to be caring of.

  At what point do we let abusers off the hook?
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  28

  Do we blame the Governing Body too much?

  by no-zombie in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'd like to start this post with a part from the movie 'v for vendetta'.

  here in a dystopian state, the main character named v, explains why things have gone so bad ....

  those who do not want us to speak.

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  Lee Marsh

  There are couple or a few huge factors going on here.

  The GB assumes total control over all JWs. JWs don't vote them into office. They take it and keep it.

  It even tries to have control over those who have left.

  The use the God-card and the death card to maximize effect. Fear of both is pretty powerful stuff. For people who do believe in a higher power of some sort, the need to believe in a God that protects them is an ace-up-the-sleeve for many people.

  Cognitive Dissonance.

  In When Prophecy Fails: A Social and Psychological Study of a Modern Group That Predicted the Destruction of the World (1956) and A Theory of Cognitive Dissonance (1957), Leon Festinger proposed that human beings strive for internal psychological consistency to function mentally in the real world.[1] A person who experiences internal inconsistency tends to become psychologically uncomfortable and is motivated to reduce the cognitive dissonance.[1][2] They tend to make changes to justify the stressful behavior, either by adding new parts to the cognition causing the psychological dissonance (rationalization) or by avoiding circumstances and contradictory information likely to increase the magnitude of the cognitive dissonance (confirmation bias).[1][2][3]
  Coping with the nuances of contradictory ideas or experiences is mentally stressful. It requires energy and effort to sit with those seemingly opposite things that all seem true. Festinger argued that some people would inevitably resolve the dissonance by blindly believing whatever they wanted to believe.[4]
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

  When people are in a cult and under the influence of the leaders individual thought has a price.

  • What if my thoughts are not true. I will die.
  • What if my thoughts are true and I lose not only my religious beliefs but my family, friends, community, and even my identity.
  • Who am I without an identity?
  • What if I am wrong and give it all up for nothing?

  It is one thing to walk away from your average religion or learn new information that takes you a new direction. But when a cult has possession of your mind, heart, actions and feelings it can be terrifying to walk away. They are trained to be like children. And as children they will not stray too far from perceived safety.

  Way back when they did a study with babies. They had them on a table. That felt safe. But part of the table was glass. That did not feel safe even though they could touch it and knew it was solid. The babies were terrified to crawl out onto the glass table top.

  JWs are just like that. They might have the information that it is safe but it doesn't feel safe because of years of being told it was not safe.

  Who is responsible. The victim or the abuser? To blame the victim for the victimization and the actions of the abusers is unrealistic. otherwise we would be locking up victims and letting the abusers go free.

  Hmmm that is rather ironic, now, isn't it?

  Don't blame the victims!
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  29

  Chessa Manion: When A Victim Becomes The Perp

  by NonCoinCollector in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  this is a hard one for me to write and words can't describe my frustration in seeing this.

  from wbko news: .

  bowling green, ky. (wbko) - bowling green police have arrested two people on multiple charges following a rape.. police say the victim told them she was kidnapped, raped, and assaulted.. police also say the rape was recorded by a man named colton hogendorn, who was arrested after police found him on 25 chestnut street.. hogendorn is charged with rape first degree, kidnapping, strangulation, assault, sodomy, and video voyeurism.. police also arrested chessa manion, who was present during the events, and arrested and charged with complicity to the same charges.. both were taken to the warren county regional jail.. .

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  Lee Marsh

  The reality is that jails are filled with people who were victims of sexual abuse as a child and never got the help they needed. MOST people don't become perpetrators. But many do. Early research on CSA was done on prisoners and the rates of victim-to-perpetrator were extremely high leading to the false belief that we all become perpetrators. The study was skewed however because of the population they were studying - prisoners.

  The rates change drastically when you study the general population.

  While there are some women who do become perpetrators on their own that is actually pretty rare and most often the abuser has serious and untreated mental health issues.

  When a woman isn't alone, the abuse occurs while she is present with a male abuser or she may be activitely involved she is almost always under the influence of the male and often substance abuse is an issue.
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  9

  Half of disfellowshipped one suicidal?

  by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this ex brother says about half of disfellowshipped ones are suicidal at about 43 minutes into this video https://youtube.com/watch?v=otcdksnf4zo&feature=sharec.

  it really is that brutal having your family and friends shun you that many unfortunately do actually take their own lives including steve letts nephew.. no wonder the drastic change in the elders book to not have any more judicial committees if suspected it would make them suicidal.. this is probably one of the largest changes in recent history that most rank and file don’t know about yet.. how it will work in practice i just don’t know.

  what if someone keeps sinning but says it’s weakness not wickedness and they are suicidal?

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  Lee Marsh

  it really is that brutal having your family and friends shun you that many unfortunately do actually take their own lives including Steve Letts nephew.

  Yes it is. It is even worse than losing your family and friends which is traumatic.

  You lose your religion. Your entire community. Remember that as JWs you don't have outside associations. So zap. Every person in your life will turn their back on you.

  You have been betrayed by the very people you are supposed to trust the most and who are supposed to guide and protect you.

  Worse still is that you lose your identity. Ask a JW who are you and most of the time they will say they are JWs. Before work. Before marital status. "I AM A JEHOVAH'S WITNESS". That is who they are. They have been taught from the beginning that being a JW is who they are and is the only thing that will save them. Without that identity they are doomed to have a miserable life and die alone.

  They have been taught to avoid ex-JWs and oddly, after leaving, many still think they have to avoid ex-JWs because that will make their lives even worse.

  Many don't have post-secondary educations so getting a job and supporting themselves is harder.

  If they have a family they may believe that the family is better off without them.

  It is extremely depressing to go through a traumatic experience like this. Depression, severe, debilitating depression goes with the trauma. And since JWs are generally warned not to seek therapy/counseling, that door is closed to them too.

  Believing they have absolutely nothing left, many think they should just quit living.

  Being disfellowshipped is one trauma. The shunning multiplies that more than a hundred times over.